BIG INTERVIEW
JOANNE THOMAS
52 ASIAN TRADER 17 OCTOBER 2025
cost-of-living crisis where the poor are
becoming poorer.
But do you think that the Employment
Rights Bill is going to help? Can you explain to
me what you think is achieved by it and what
the difficulties might be, and then I’ll give you
the perspective of a small employer.
J T: The Employment Rights Bill is the biggest
uplift workers have had in a generation. What
we’ve got a responsibility to do, and what the
Labour Party’s got a responsibility to do, is
make people aware of it, because even when I
talk to some members in the workplace,
they’re not 100% sure what the right
Employment Rights Bill does.
We need to say to people that this is about
your terms and conditions. It’s about your
contract, particularly the contract and the
importance of that in retail, because it is very
rare for an employee to get a full-time
contract in retail, very rare.
You normally go in on a short-term
contract, and you work literally whenever, at
short notice, for a number of years, basically
to prove yourself before you get a medium-
hours contract, 16 to 20 hours, that is
standard. But ultimately, you know, when it
comes to people getting access to mortgages,
to decent rates on loans, that all still comes
down to what contract you are on.
If somebody’s working a regular 40 hours
and they’ve still got this 16-hour contract,
that affects every element of their life, not
just what they do: it affects their childcare, it
affects what benefits they might be on,
particularly in-work benefits and what access
to housing and so on –
purely because of that
contract.
The important
thing is not letting the
Bill get diluted at any
stage, so that access to a
decent contract is at
the heart of it. Because
this is where the
lowest paid workers
can benefit the most,
and the benefit for the
Labour government is that they’ll get more
people out of in-work benefits. The Labour
Party should not be sustaining Big Business by
paying benefits.
Ultimately, there’s a win, win. The other
elements of the Employment Rights Bill are
also fantastic for workers, like having access
to sick pay from day one and not having to
worry if you’re really poorly and can’t go into
work because you can’t afford to. And the
abolishment of zero-hour contracts.
AT: Now let me present to you the point of
view of the shop owner who has maybe a
couple of full-time staff, two or three
part-time staff, and cares about the employ
ees and tries to pay them whatever she can
afford, and give them the shifts that make it
okay for them to pick up the kids from school
or look after their mum or do whatever
they’ve got to do.
What’s happened now with the last budget
is this: Retailers were on quite narrow
margins, not a lot of profit, and they were just
about keeping their heads above the water
after lockdown and inflation and so forth.
Then suddenly they have business rate relief
removed and increases in National Insurance
that they’ve got to pay for every worker, and
then they have the minimum wage going up.
And what’s happening to a lot of them now
is that they’re not making any money at all, so
some have started to get rid of workers and
just do the shifts themselves, where previ
ously they might have tried to become more
executive and expand – invest in another shop
– and employ more rather than fewer people.
Well, they can’t now, they’ve retrenched
back into their own shop, working there
themselves, behind the
counter, because they
can’t afford to pay the
shifts that they would
have done before.
Secondly, they’re not
going to recruit
anybody else because
they can’t afford
National Insurance.
They can’t pay the
business rates; they
can’t raise their prices
because the customers haven’t got any money.
So, from their point of view, the Employment
Rights Bill is great for the workers, but the
second order effect is you’re not going to have
so many workers. How does that help the
workers? What would you say to that?
JT: First of all, for any trade union leader or any
trade union official, our priority is always to
keep members in work. That means you need
an employer in a position where they make a
profit and can provide secure jobs. So, I totally
accept what you are saying in that regard.
You are probably aware that we have been
very vocal with the Labour Party around
having a reduction with regards to the rents
and the rates, because we don’t believe it’s a
level playing field, particularly for employers
that are that are on-line. We believe that there
should be a package that is giving answers to
the questions you’re posing, because we do
not want communities without small employ
ers and without crucial convenience stores.
I’ll tell you why we’d be supportive of these
additional measures that support small
businesses. It’s because it really helps Sunday
trading, where the big stores close early,
driving footfall to convenience stores on
Sunday evenings, which is more than people
might think, because I know that the profits
tend to go up there, and that’s a really good
sort of compromise, and that helps every
body. So, you know, we don’t want that
balance to be distorted.
AT: The government is talking about allowing
supermarkets to remain fully open on Sundays.
J T: Exactly. But for me, it is more about an
industrial strategy that works, rather than
diluting the Employment Rights Bill, because
it isn’t designed to put businesses out of
business. It’s about creating fairness and a
level playing field for workers.
It shouldn’t be anything that any employ
ee should fear. But the answer for me is – and I
know this has been widely publicised,
certainly from Usdaw – that the industrial
strategy isn’t favourable to small and medium
employers, particularly with regards to the
rent and the business rates. I think we and the
business community are probably on the
same page.
The next chapter
AT: My final question is, what do you see in
the next three or four years? What will be the
biggest issues affecting the workplace and the
economy, and where do you think you’re
going to be fighting your biggest battles and
making your biggest pushes in policy terms?
J T: The biggest issue will always be the
cost-of-living crisis. We always want to make
sure that we are robust around the negotiat
ing table, delivering for our members. I
appreciate everybody has bills to pay,
employers as well, but ultimately, we’ll be
focused on making sure that our members’
voices are heard around implementing the
Employment Rights Bill and making sure that
this is recognised politically, that the Labour
Party delivers something.
I am very concerned with the rise of
Reform, I don’t think they are any friend of
the worker. I think that they cause division in
communities, and I would hate to think that
they get more political recognition.
We are the retail union. We very much
encourage retail workers to join us, because
we’re very familiar with their working
environment, and we provide excellent
results for members. We improve our
members lives. We deliver statistically with
higher rates of pay and safer working
environments. Your concerns are our policies
– so join Usdaw now!