BIG INTERVIEW
JOANNE THOMAS
17 OCTOBER 2025 ASIAN TRADER 51
throughout the regions, to make sure that we
speak to non-members as well as members.
This is why communication is crucial. Where
we have agreements in place it means we also
have access to workers. For example, in
inductions, we can speak to employees and
get them to join the union straight away.
AT: How’s recruitment looking in the
independent grocery sector? It would seem to
be an attractive offer, especially because for
some staff English is not their first language,
and there are transient workers, as you say,
who might otherwise assume that workplace
rights and representation don’t apply to
them.
J T: It all comes back down to communication
and visiting stores, making sure that people
are aware, first of all, that there is a retail
union that’s there for them. Because nine
times out of 10 people still don’t know how to
access the union unless somebody has a
conversation with them, approaches them,
and discusses it.
Then we can give them options, if they
prefer to join with payroll deduction or direct
debit, we can talk to them about that. We can
talk to them about their employment and all
the issues that matter. Because unless you’ve
got a shop steward or a workplace representa
tive present, this isn’t something that often
crops up. It’s not like anybody talks about it
much unless you’ve got a trade union family!
A lot of people have joined thinking, ‘You
know what, just in case something happens’.
But retail work is often part time, so they are
on much lower pay. People quite often think,
‘I’m not going to be here for very long’, and
then we end up seeing them five or 10 years
down the line, which is a very true pattern.
I want us to be an absolute powerhouse in
the private sector, and I think we’ve lost our
way with that. Statistically, we’ve lost our way
of trade union dominance [in the workplace],
and I want to make sure that it’s a priority for
me, to make sure that unions are seen as
extremely relevant, and that we’re a powerful
force that speaks on behalf of workers,
especially when there’s so much division in
workplaces and communities.
Workplace rights
AT: That segues nicely into the Employment
Rights Bill that’s going through parliament
now, following a period that encompasses
Brexit, then Covid, and now a long-term
woman, so I look at things differently. I look
and feel like a lot of the members I represent,
and I’m very familiar with the issues that
affect women and minority groups, particu
larly from an equalities perspective.
From a leadership perspective, one thing
that I know that I’m good at is communicat
ing, and I’m not saying Paddy wasn’t, by the
way, because he was; but I think that’s what I
will concentrate on and make my legacy
around – lots of listening as well as leading and
making sure that I’m spending time with
members and representatives in the regions,
in the workplaces, and making sure our
campaigns are really aligned with what’s
going on.
Law and order
AT: The convenience channel is a good place
to work for mothers, part-time workers who
perhaps look after children, and for young
people as well. it gives the advantage of
flexible working and all those sorts of things.
But the big problem is that it’s increasingly
becoming a terrible environment in which to
work – especially for women. What can the
union do to help with the security and
working conditions, and how can you get the
government and the police to take more
action to fight the crime wave?
J T: We’ve been campaigning for a standalone
offence against shopworkers for more than
two decades, which has been active in
Scotland for about four years now, and it’s due
under a Labour government to come into
fruition in England. It can act as a great
deterrent, similar to assaulting a police officer.
Everybody knows you don’t do that
because it can be a much heavier level of
punishment, and in addition, we are very
closely working with, employers. They’re the
ones that carry the duty of care, making sure
that workplaces are safe, which covers a broad
range of things, whether it be body cams,
having guards present, making sure that staff
can park close to the stores rather than at the
back of car parks, or having well-lighted
environments of an evening.
We don’t want anybody going into work
feeling afraid. So, it’s about making sure that
we speak to the police, crime agencies, the
employers, and have legislation in place to
make sure that the retail worker is safe and
doesn’t feel scared about going to work.
AT: Usdaw’s way of working reminds me of
the German method of partnership with
employers, rather than a more confronta
tional, “We’re the workers, you’re the bosses”
approach. Do you find that that still works?
I’m asking particularly because the conveni
ence channel is generally small businesses
where the workers are often in the same room
with the owner all day. And our experience is
that with very few exceptions, they get along
very well, and it’s a family atmosphere.
J T: Most of our agreements are consensual,
where we have built membership up and com
municated with the company to make sure
that we get an agreement. We work solely in
the private sector, and in addition to that, we
need to recruit 100,000 members just to
stand still every year. Because there are very
transient workers.
We get the highest rates of pay in the
sector when it comes to delivering, particu
larly for retail; the best employment pack
ages; the best terms and conditions and safer
workplaces, and that done with a very
professional dispute resolution process. I
would never criticise any of my sister unions
ever, but I think what works for us is consen
sual agreements.
They’re not all partnership agreements,
they’re also collective bargaining agree
ments, where the priority is delivering for
members, and ultimately that is where we’ve
seen success, where we can work together
with employers because their biggest asset is
their employees.
On occasion, we have to go through an
industrial action process, but even where this
is the case we’ve still managed to maintain
professional relationships with employers.
AT: You really need to recruit 100,000
members a year, just to stand still? That alone
must be a full-time operation.
J T: We have to operate very strategically and
make sure that we are set up consistently